[RP] To Knights of Phoenix, XOXO Stafford County

[arthur_loxley]

Knights of Phoenix,

For some time now, we have felt animosity between our county and your esteemed organization. The rumors, innuendos, and hostility some members of your organization have directed to Stafford is a great concern. During the controversy surrounding the Stafford Wargames, Stafford sent a KoP Corporal as a liaison to resolve the issue and allay any concerns. After discussion, we believed there to be a misunderstanding which had been resolved through communication. We also invited the Knights of Phoenix to participate in our War games, and were happy to welcome those who came. However, with the Chester conflict, there is now a renewal of the same hostility and mistrust previously shown by high command officers of the Knights of Phoenix.

Stafford can no longer ignore or dismiss these issues. We had given the Knights of Phoenix special recognition within our County, and feel that the actions of high commanders in your organization have threatened our relationship. Therefore, it is with deepest regret, the decision of our Council to discontinue the special recognition we afforded to the Knights of Phoenix within our county.

It is our decision that Stafford no longer grant special recognition to any private military organization, no matter the renown of the organization. The change in our policy is not a brash decision. It has been discussed previously, and is more important now that sea lanes have been discovered. In times when all of England should be working together militarily, we feel that recognizing certain organizations will cause detriment to the 'unity' mentality and believe it best to afford every private military the same treatment.

In friendship and on behalf of the Stafford Council,



Arthur Loxley Tudor
Duke of Stafford

[arthur_loxley]

[rp]Lord Loxley,

Just as you stated there have been lot of mistrust and miscommunication between The Knights of the Phoenix and the current Stafford council and Stafford county and mostly with Stafford current count.

We respect the wishes of the Stafford council to end the recognition and as you know, it ends with all the terms as it was stated in the recognition.

Therefore The new soldiers of Knights of Phoenix are no longer obligated to have first loyality to Stafford Guard and not any more under the orders of Legally elected council of Stafford and its captain, nor have to report to him while in the county of Stafford.

As long our soldiers are not disturbed by Stafford guard or Stafford legally elected council for doing basic things such as travel, work, study and make theyr own choice to join our ranks, i do believe we will live together good and as you stated have same treatment as other military organizations withing the county of Stafford.

Please know that we are a private army and we do care more about our soldiers then council members in the said county and in case of conflict we will support our members withing the county of Stafford.

In friendship and on Behalf of the Knights of the Phoenix


Elmix Degas
Marshal of KoP[/rp]

[arthur_loxley]

Without a national military force, these private groups bring people together from all around England. They are the unity. Whoever has unity to England should be welcomed. This is a true shame I must say.

[arthur_loxley]

Whoever has unity to England should be welcomed.

So, WoS is being accepted now?
I've never been a member to know for sure, but I hear they all the time how they are "everywhere," no?

Shaking her head, Nivera walks off to find a place where people on all "sides" earn respect by being respectable, not by the badge they wear or the Sword they carry.

[arthur_loxley]

Whoever has unity to England should be welcomed.

So, WoS is being accepted now?
I've never been a member to know for sure, but I hear they all the time how they are "everywhere," no?

Shaking her head, Nivera walks off to find a place where people on all "sides" earn respect by being respectable, not by the badge they wear or the Sword they carry.

Without any who are willing to carry those swords you seem to scorn then all our towns would be wide open to thieves and brigands, would you prefer that ?

[arthur_loxley]

People, do not lead this to a fight. Just remember as all militia private or not we are here for England and it's counties. Just because KoP is not a recognized group doesn't mean it will hinder anyone. Just think of this as Stafford opening their arms out to all militia's instead of just one. Also, Nivera, that is a very sad thing to hear that you think that I hide behind badges. But I guess the freedom that we give with our lives should allow you to think in anyway or not. Even if it means our death. Just a note though, I wouldn't be saying out loud since everyone else aslo has that same freedom.

[arthur_loxley]

Without any who are willing to carry those swords you seem to scorn then all our towns would be wide open to thieves and brigands, would you prefer that ?

I'm sorry, but I don't find your exclusion of the county militias to be all that insightful. Perhaps you meant to mention them, and since Faradorn had a different point than you I'll respect that he didn't forget about them either.

I believe there have been issues with private military forces enough to fill our heads for days, but I'm hoping no one takes this as a chance to lay them all out here. (Specific issues, anyway) However, Nivera used an unpopular example and was pleasantly bombarded for placing her opinion with it.

The idea that a private military organization is not the only hope for England seems a bit lost here, as well as the fact that England's citizens are not automatically indebted to you for your sense of glory. It is simply a measure of the past that puts us in this situation, (Stafford's) the heightened self-appointment of superiority over the normal defender and a lack of respect to government and citizens who are not in a consistent military structure.

Please do not take this as some grievous insult, as it is not directed at any particular organization or person, nor does it pertain to every private soldier. Feel free to see me as biased however, I've shared my opinion of the Chester chapter of KoP's regimental leadership enough times in the past. If either statement bothers you enough, you may go out of your way to feel insulted if you desire the attention.

Its a simple thing to respect soldiers who will fight, but this is a matter of politics and sides. I believe "bullying" might even be something worth using here to describe what I mean, though it sounds rather nasty to be said out loud instead of carefully veiled.

[arthur_loxley]

I think you would be surprised how similarily we view matters, but right now I dont have time to educate you to my way of thinking !

However should we meet in the county of Chester in the near future and have the opportunity to share an Ale or two I look forward to discussing your ideas and opinions.

Insulted by your words not at all !

[arthur_loxley]

Well Lyle, I don't feel as though I am insulted nor did I think that one organziation was the saviour of England. Only that the two above should re-think their discussions to see both sides. Plus it was the words of Nivera saying:

Shaking her head, Nivera walks off to find a place where people on all "sides" earn respect by being respectable, not by the badge they wear or the Sword they carry.

That is talking about ALL military and not singling out just one. To anyone who is a person who wears the badge to protect others that my neighbor does not sit well. Plus politics, everything is politics here. this area is all about politics. Also, I say again, I was not insulted by you Lyle, just that saying bullying made me look like a bad guy and by politics had to say something.

He grins and winks Lyle. Have a goodnight neighbor.

[arthur_loxley]

Whoever has unity to England should be welcomed.

So, WoS is being accepted now?
I've never been a member to know for sure, but I hear they all the time how they are "everywhere," no?

Shaking her head, Nivera walks off to find a place where people on all "sides" earn respect by being respectable, not by the badge they wear or the Sword they carry.

People on all "sides": 'Good' and 'bad' guys alike
Badge: sign of CoA of their group, organization, or family
Sword: weapon carried by many citizens who may or may not belong to a family, group or organization.

Sparhawk, I was in fact making the point that the private militias are not the only unifying forces in England. I was not saying the private militias and military groups were bad.

The thing, see, is that there is a lot of unity in England. There are groups like KoP whose members come from all over and feel like family. And there are groups like WoS whose members.... come from all over and... hum.... feel like family. There are some huge families, like the Morgans, whose members........ well, you get it. Get it?

If you wish to have every County welcome private military groups, claiming you are the unifying force of England is not a grand justification. You are private. Not public. Your welcome is dependent on the will of the County Councils, and that means playing nice in their sandbox, so to speak.

Sure, a private militia with members all over will certainly have some in Stafford, and I am sure they live an unmolested life there. It sounds like (and I admit, there is no detailing of the incidents that led to this here) there was an issue of some KoP being disrespectful to the County of Stafford or its government. If that is true, it taints the people's view of your whole organization.

Knights have a high standard of discipline, I have been taught from a child. They are courteous to a fault, even unto their enemies. Certainly to their hosts. If the KoP and other private militias live by that simple rule, they would be more than welcome anywhere in a professional capacity, I am quite sure.

That is what I meant by my one (much smaller) speech.
Feel free to contact me if I am not clear this time.

[arthur_loxley]

Mini listens silently to the conversation. Many here could probably already guess her view on the subject anyway. She merely wanted to know what others thought.

Mini could tell some people believed they were betrayed by this decision. At the same time, the other side believed they were the ones betrayed. Did KoP betray the county? Or did the county betray them. Mini shook her head. All this brought was division and sorrow.

She understood many had been hurt and hoped people would be able to keep their emotions in check.

She listened as Nivera made her rebuttal. So far Nivera had seemed sensible, then "There are some huge families, like the Morgans, whose members........ well, you get it. Get it?"

Mini raised an eyebrow. She understood that some people didn't like the Morgans, but it was no reason to be petty. Nivera didn't even know the Morgans to even comment upon. Mini decided the incident wasn't even worth her time commenting on. The comment itself said more about Nivera and her snippiness than it did the Morgans.

[arthur_loxley]

Sparhawk nods.

Iye, I understand Nivera. We both speak half of what each other are sayin me thinks. Seein that this opens us knights no matter what organization we come from we are all treated the same. Liked or disliked. Still sad to see though lass. I have been with these knights fer three and a half years now. May the citizens of Stafford move forward and bring greatness to their county as I do Somerset and all of England's county's. Know this Nivera, speakin of knights, if ye ever see me and yer in trouble. Just know I will gladly give up my life fer ye, yer friends, and yer county.

He smiles and decides that enough has been said and walks off to find some more fun with somebody else. He laughs loudly when he shuts the door behind him.

[arthur_loxley]

She listened as Nivera made her rebuttal. So far Nivera had seemed sensible, then "There are some huge families, like the Morgans, whose members........ well, you get it. Get it?"

Mini raised an eyebrow. She understood that some people didn't like the Morgans, but it was no reason to be petty. Nivera didn't even know the Morgans to even comment upon. Mini decided the incident wasn't even worth her time commenting on. The comment itself said more about Nivera and her snippiness than it did the Morgans.

Mini, I think Nivera was only trying to point out that the Morgans are ... well, "a large family whose members come from all over and feel like family." She's trying to point out that there are lots of unifying factors in England, not just that brought by private military groups.

Maybe we should *all* try to take the best out of what people say instead of making the worst assumptions about what people mean.

[arthur_loxley]

Although Mini had said nothing, Studius seemed to read her mind. Was she that easy to read?

Mini looked at the man before her, who seemed to be a gentle spirit, and smiled at him.

"Thank you, Sir. However, 'tis not an assumption I make."

Mini pats the man on the hand.

[arthur_loxley]

The look on Lady Mini's face had been easy to read indeed, and Studius had caught it.

He is very correct Lady. My point was that there are a lot of different groups in England that bring unity. Family is one of the strongest and most lasting. The Morgans were the largest family that came to my mind as I know a number of them, actually. Quite a few live in Wiltshire. A few are currently on our Council. And I've met many as I travelled to Cumberland and back this summer. I'm sorry I never got a chance to met you; maybe I'll come back up one day and get luckier.

If any groups which unify England should be welcomed, then there are a lot of groups the Counties should work with to improve quality of life across our nation, not just the militaries. S.O.W. Guild, URACE, Old Ways groups, and families.... and more. I am sorry you mistook a compliment.

[arthur_loxley]

The WOS do not unit England but tear it and the military down...military people are always under more attack for doing their jobs and yet if one little thing is spoken of the wolves they come running as they will here and yelp their way of twisting things...they have done nothing but weaken England ...and now there are ports it's too late...

Walking away I think some can just go back to the beds they have made and lay in them...and ticking off in my mind who will be coming to yelp at me now that I have voiced an opinion in public...but none will be worth the wasted breath to argue and I continue walking as I have said what I have to say on the matter ...

[arthur_loxley]

I do agree that military takes more flak than the WoS, even though the WoS have been and probably always will be the worst thing to ever happen to England. No other force ever has, and probably never will do as much harm to England as the WoS have over the years. Yet if anything is said about the WoS, they all get very defensive and act as if their orginization does nothing but great things for the people. Where as the military such as KoP has always helped counties in their times of need with things like helping fight against WoS and others that mean to harm England, and although they may have killed a few innocent people, I bet from all the harm caused by WoS that a lot more innocents have died due to them, then all Englands military orders combined.

[arthur_loxley]

Nivera recalls the whole conversation in her mind (rereads the thread) and sees not one WoS adding to the conversation. Curious what Jealeaia is on about now, she shrugs. Nivera never attacked the military, she just said they were not the heart and soul of England. What a concept.

[arthur_loxley]

No Nivera you haven't, but that gutter trash of a husband of yours did. I guess some woman are just desperate. Makes me wonder how much we van trust your brother, the former regent. Stafford is a cesspool. Thet have broken treaties, harbored the NNGO AND WoS, refused to let an army recognized by the crown travel thru their territory etc etc. I would put pence to shillings that when the NNGO hits our shores, your husband will disgrace himself and sell out England.

[arthur_loxley]

Same could be be said for Cumberland .

I do hope when we first meet , that it is with you stuck on the end of my sword , it would give great pleasure ending your miserable , sniveling , quarrelsome life .

You butt your nose in other peoples affairs where it's none of your business or your concern , concentrate on your own problems and life for a change and let others sort out their own problems .

Are you not surprised we've broken Treaties with Cumberland , if this the abuse we get from you , A county can only take so much hatred and abuse from another County until , they decide enough is enough and pull the plug on treaties/Trades etc.

In Stafford , we believe in something called " Innocent until proven guilty " , have you heard of it , it's rather good , ya know .
It allows people like me to live our lives , in peace and prosperity until we break the law , then we get punished for our crime/s .
We do no judge others for their background/ beliefs / organization ( well we not meant to , but some can't help themselves ..... Salter that means you )

As for harbouring the WoS / NNGO , if you mean , allow to live in peace until we break the law , see the paragraph above .

As for Duke Loxley's decree , Retinue's are allowed to travel through Stafford , just not armies , which I think is fair .
All he is doing is protecting his County and it's people , which any right minded Duke/Duchess , would always do , protect it's intrests .

[arthur_loxley]

Laughs at Dewaugh's confused rebuttal.

"No county has taken more abuse and hatred than Chester, and Stafford has been one of the leaders in the bullying. How hypocritical of you to whine about being abused.

"I am not surprised Stafford has broken treaties with anyone. Look at who's duke. Look at its history. There have been times when Stafford could be trusted, and times when it could not. Unfortunately, these days, the only people that can trust Stafford are criminals. I hope that Stafford will return to its former glory."

Mini sighs sorrowfully, remembering the times when Stafford could be counted upon as a loyal English county.

"Dewaugh, I only answer your rebuttal because there are people foolish enough to believe your word. You're dead wrong about Stafford allowing NNGO and WoS to stay as long as they didn't commit any crimes. Right after NNGO pillaged Chester, NNGO ran to Stafford for safety. Stafford refused to let King LJS's army through to fight the NNGO. Of course, the King's army completed its duty and fought NNGO anyway. When His Majesty's army disbanded, Stafford refused to prosecute NNGO members, allowing the criminals who ravaged Chester to escape."

Mini shook her head, "I'm sorry, but Angelreventant is correct. Stafford did harbor NNGO. History cannot be erased.. Today, we see history repeat itself. Stafford is once again going to protect criminals by disallowing King LJS' armed forces to pass through. This is not in Stafford's right, as you would claim, Dewaugh. Stafford does not pay for road construction or road repairs. King LJS alone pays that bill. Therefore, the roads belong to the King, not Stafford, and Stafford is obligated to allow any Loyal Englishman to pass. I say Loyal... WoS are not loyal. Robbers are not loyal. However, any army in service of the His Majesty must be allowed to pass."

[arthur_loxley]

Telcara was shocked and was unable to speak for a while when she heard what Miniphoenix said. "Are you saying that every citizen in Stafford who trusts the council and has voted in the elections, are criminals? I kindly ask you to take your words back. I don't believe a whole county to be considered criminal because they choose to trust and have faith in their council. Criminals are people convicted of a crime. I may not agree with all Dewaugh has said but innocence until proven guilty, that I believe in.. I feel you are letting your personal feelings through too much, Miniphoenix, which I feel are quite unpleasant in this atmosphere." Telcara looks around "I don't think anyone came here with the mind of making enemies, let's share some friendship cookies instead" with a nervous smile, she shared them with everyone.

[arthur_loxley]

Telcara was shocked and was unable to speak for a while when she heard what Miniphoenix said. "Are you saying that every citizen in Stafford who trusts the council and has voted in the elections, are criminals? I kindly ask you to take your words back. I don't believe a whole county to be considered criminal because they choose to trust and have faith in their council. Criminals are people convicted of a crime. I may not agree with all Dewaugh has said but innocence until proven guilty, that I believe in.. I feel you are letting your personal feelings through too much, Miniphoenix, which I feel are quite unpleasant in this atmosphere." Telcara looks around "I don't think anyone came here with the mind of making enemies, let's share some friendship cookies instead" with a nervous smile, she shared them with everyone.

Mini actually speaks truthfully .. without trying to patronize you tel .. i dont think youd understand .

[arthur_loxley]

Rain is a bit surprised as well. She thinks back to that time so early in Stafford's history--so long ago. It had been two years since the NNGO had taken Chester, and she had only just finished losing her argument to Lord Lucas about removing her from his town council and Stafford Parliament. He had made her stay and become involved. "I remember that time too, though a little differently. I remember demands for Stafford to, for all intents and purposes, banish citizens without trial by keeping Anto and his followers from returning home to Birmingham. I remember demands for a half-realized, unchartered "national" army to enter the county without a vote by the council. I remember Duke Grendell of Chester roving around the countryside, fiddling about signing a judicial treaty. I remember Stafford waiting and waiting and waiting for evidence and cooperation from Chester for a month--a month!--until Scotland was discovered and NNGO moved to the new colony, waiting three more days before taking that action on top of everything else. Most of the people in Stafford at that time are either dead, or have moved elsewhere--mostly dead--so I'm sure that most of our citizens would appreciate not being blamed for things that happened before they even came to England. You can't change history, it's true, but reality depends on one's point of view and real truth is somewhere in the middle of all sides.

"As for passage through Stafford...repeating the lies of others does not make them true, Lady Morgan. It's been stated in just about every available location that travel is not restricted through Stafford, only armies and recruiters."

[arthur_loxley]

Mini notices the surprise on the women's faces, as they weren't expecting to hear the truth. "Lady Rain, do not twist my words. I never blamed the people of Stafford. I merely blamed Stafford itself.

"To your points, again, a national army doesn't need the vote of the council. The roads belong to LJS, and any army answerable to him has the right to travel. Stafford already had a judicial treaty with Chester. I was on Chester Council the term before NNGO and WoS took over. I was PP. I worked with Stafford on cases. If we had no judicial treaty, then why did I, as PP, have no problem with Stafford in the past? If indeed there was no treaty, then Stafford had already set a precedent for not requiring a judicial treaty to cooperate with other counties. After all, a piece of paper (or lack of paper) can't stop you from taking someone to court."

"Now Rain, I expect better of you. When did I lie? I never stated that that Stafford wasn't allowing people to pass through. My entire point was on whether or not armies should be able to travel. My conclusion is that any army in the service of His Majesty has a right to use His roads, which He, not Stafford, funds."

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