[RP] anyone else finding this to be truth

[arthur_loxley]

that staffords council seems to want to push others around be they neighbors or further away counties


I for one do not remember anyone asking Staffords council to suggest thier opinions to Chesters Laws yet they do feel free to offer the vieled threats


and I for one saw that thank you sent out from miniphoenix to all who helped in the defense of the country border with scotland I guess Stafford needs it's own thank you cause they are better then the rest of us in thier opinion


Steei

[arthur_loxley]

I do not agree completely with all of the actions taken by the current Stafford Council. But on these matters, I have to say they have my support.

In regards to Chester's laws, I think the course taken by my council is perfectly acceptable. We could not in good conscience enforce laws that we believe to be unjust, so we told Chester that they must change their laws or we will be unable to uphold our end of the judicial treaty. Simple.


And I remember the thank you Miniphoenix gave to the country. But I also remember Stafford making a sizable contribution to Cumberland's army at no financial gain to us, and being the only county to show such support. Twice.
And now they refuse to sign the same treaty with Stafford that has already been signed by every other county? After all the support we have shown the border army in the past? That is not right.

[arthur_loxley]

that staffords council seems to want to push others around be they neighbors or further away counties


I for one do not remember anyone asking Staffords council to suggest thier opinions to Chesters Laws yet they do feel free to offer the vieled threats


and I for one saw that thank you sent out from miniphoenix to all who helped in the defense of the country border with scotland I guess Stafford needs it's own thank you cause they are better then the rest of us in thier opinion


Steei

Stafford is not pushing around anybody. We have been trying to establish a steady communication with Cumberland since it was discovered. There have been no responses from Cumberland. As far as the appreciation from Cumberland to Stafford, I am not aware of any personal thanks for our donation to the border patrol. Stafford does not think it is 'better then the rest' either. Actually, we are just active and closing up some loose ends from previous Government administrations.

Duke Tazatron asked Stafford to indicate which laws of the new legal corpus of Chester were causing issues to our county. We haven't sent any response yet as we are still discussing it within our chambers. Please get your facts straight before speaking.

Stafford is evaluating every relationship it currently has with other counties. Disrespect or ignoring our county will not be tolerated.

[arthur_loxley]

"Jah!" Penelope muttered under her breath as she listened to another noble. "They are everywhere!" Dropping down to curtsy in front of the man who had just spoken, Penelope rose and trying not to show her fear or her ignorance, timidly offered, "M'lord, honey is much better used to rid the taste of vinegar. My mama always told me that to challenge another without compassion will only result in more chest poundings."

[arthur_loxley]

Stafford has shown a lot of compassion and patience. The next step was to contact the Dukes of the counties of Chester and Cumberland to inform them about the problems that we have as a way to resolve the issues since other counties have defunct Embassies. Stafford is tying up loose ends that have been dangling for many, many months. This is not a new development.

[arthur_loxley]

Lord Loxley, I have been in Duchess for 10 days, in that time I have replied to you about the treaty. I apologized for the slight the previous council gave Stafford, I then replied about the concerns we had. I do not see how that is not communicating.

But in case you are unaware sir, the previous council was in term for less than 30 days, we had to fight our way into office after Duke Lucas Avis, went awol and half the council went inactive. We had too much to do with in the first 2 weeks. You have your reply. Our embassy and ambassadors are also inactive. We are working on that but by all means please take the "appropriate measures" you deem necessary.

Cumberland has thanked all those who have helped on the national border. All those who have patrolled, those who have sent food and funds. I'm not exactly sure how else we should be thanking you... and I really think since it is a national border isn't it our duty for all of England to protect it. Or is just Cumberland's responsibility?

Perhaps some clarification is needed. Does the Scottish border need protecting? Are the rogue armies and the Reavers a threat to England? If not then lets open the border, send the troops home and welcome all to freely enter and leave. It would certainly save Cumberland funds.

[arthur_loxley]

Lady Beemo, I should have clarified when I stated that Cumberland had given no response. I had meant prior to your election to Duchess. Stafford and Cumberland are now communicating; but we have been ignored for over 18 months prior to your election as Duchess. We have been reaching out to Cumberland since December of 1455.

Here is a background of the attempts of Stafford to establish communication with Cumberland:

Timeline of Events
28th Dec 1455
Our standard Judicial Treaty was presented

19th Jan 1456

Lord Arthur Loxley Tudor,

The Council of Cumberland would like Article III section 5 to be removed before we sign. The rest is agreed upon. I hope this is the clarification you required.

Lady Shriekersmom

Referring to this language:

5. Any unilateral cancellation in a war situation will be assumed as a treason act and could lead to full retaliation

Nothing happened from this. Meanwhile, Cumberland signed the same treaty with the language they asked Stafford to remove with other counties:
Lancaster - 7th June 1456
Chester - 28th December 1455
Somerset - 24th July 1456
Along with 9 other Countries.

24 Mar 1456
Treaty sent again. No response.

14 Aug 1456
Treaty sent again. No response.

8 Sept 1456
Donnor killed by Cumberland army.

19 Jun 1457
Treaty sent again. Response from Chamberlain stating that treaty was in discussion.

[arthur_loxley]

Duke Tazatron asked Stafford to indicate which laws of the new legal corpus of Chester were causing issues to our county. We haven't sent any response yet as we are still discussing it within our chambers. Please get your facts straight before speaking.

Count Loxley, i can speak very matter of factly when i say... I have seen your letters personally. I have found them to be very interesting.

[arthur_loxley]

A citizen of Chester also asked me to look at the newly published Chester Laws and give my opinion as well. Specifically in regards to application of the King's Edicts.

Though I live in Stafford I have no ties to the council, save for having previously been on it.
Is that pushing around as well, since I have answered and reviewed and given my opinion as requested?

But in the light of openess I shall share my answers to this person, not so much for debate, but to show that there is no malfeaseance or attempt to undermine, but merely questions and concerns.

Citizen of Good Standing: any person, man or woman who has at least five (5) reputation points; is not a vagrant(as defined by game mechanics); and is not at present serving a jail sentence.

Later on in definitions it is appeared to be a prerequisite to not be a vagrant. This is not beholding to King's edict to have equal opportunity for all. Choosing to not have land should not be a crime nor treated as one. One of England's greatest statesmen was a vagrant, Lord Rohannon Hohenzollern, who forwent having fields to serve more in a military way (and still managed to make lvl 3.)
Vagrant is a misnomer for the choice to not own land.

Vol 2 Sect 2 1.8. Any action where a public request from the Chester Duke, Chester Captain or Chester Constable for justification of suspected treasonable actions that goes unanswered in a satisfactory manor will be taken as 'intent' to commit Treason.

Open to abuse, seemingly.. for what or who justifies a satisfactory manner... and for what would public request be made of the citizen(ry). I can see the opposite, the citizenry not receiving of a satisfactory answer in the council being answerable.

If I am mistaken in the intent or applicability, please enlighten.
You have permission to share my comments as deemed appropriate.

[arthur_loxley]

"Jah!" Penelope muttered under her breath as she listened to another noble. "They are everywhere!" Dropping down to curtsy in front of the man who had just spoken, Penelope rose and trying not to show her fear or her ignorance, timidly offered, "M'lord, honey is much better used to rid the taste of vinegar. My mama always told me that to challenge another without compassion will only result in more chest poundings."

Viceroy hands Penelope a few bottles of honey. Whispering he comments, "When dealing with politics, you'll have to remind a number of people about the value of honey/"

[arthur_loxley]

Lord Loxley, I beg to differ sir. The following is evidence that there WAS an attempt to get it dealt with. By ME, when I was captain.

What I received via the embassy was as follows(dated 13 Jul, 1457)...

and then there is the Treaty with Stafford it was never signed... I informed both Mini and DF without any answer... Stafford if being patience but it really needs to be addressed soon or at least let them know your looking at it.

Go to Cumberland Embassy > Cumberland Embassy English Division > Stafford Embassy


Lynna wrote:
Lynna had looked over the papers in the Stafford Embassy and noticed there had not been a Judicial treaty agreed upon with Cumberland, the Stafford Chamberlain had asked her to re-present the Stafford version for those on Cumberland council to peruse. She pulled another parchment from her satchel.

Tasite I have also bought with me the Judicial Treaty we offer to the counties in England and I was wondering if you would be able to present it to Council for their perusal and discussion on signing a Treaty with Stafford, would you please be able to do that for me ? I believe talks were started some time ago but never finalised and I was asked to bring it with me.



Stafford Judicial Treaty wrote:
In their almighty wisdom, the Lords Dragonflame, Count of Cumberland, and Kenrich, Count of Stafford, wished to express their friendship by establishing a judicial treaty binding Stafford and Cumberland citizens to preserve that friendship over years.

Article I
1. Upon the signing of this Judicial treaty, the contracting parties agree that no one should flee from legal proceedings or attempt escape from his/her Duke's authority on his/her lands.
2. A citizen accused in one or both counties must follow the laws and customs where the offense was committed.

Article II
1. If an accused person flees from a territory allied by this treaty in an attempt to flee justice, he will be either extradited or judged, by mutual agreement by duly appointed judicial authorities upon who's lands he was arrested. Concerning the mutual agreement, it implies a full cooperation between prosecutors and judges from both countries in order that the defendant receive a judgment he would have received if he hadn't fled. The accused should also be provided a competent defense council by the Country in which he was arrested.
2. The procedure will be the following :
- Indictment on demand by the Duchy holding jurisdiction over the crime committed. Requesting Duchy prosecutor will write the bill of indictment. Proof of Evidence against the accused will be required from the Requesting Duchy to the responding Duchy prior to posting of any indictment.
- The whole procedure is under the primary jurisdiction of the requesting duchy. The Local responding Judge will write the sentence, but will show motives of his decision following the law of the requesting duchy.
- Collaboration is required between juridical authorities from both duchies in order to keep the laws of both the requesting and responding Duchies respected

Article III
1. Lords, their heirs, and successors are contractually obligated to respect the entire treaty. Disregard of any clause(s) within this treaty frees the other party of his commitment until a compensation is made/or agreements can be reached.
2. A unilateral cancellation of present treaty in a peacetime context should respect the following order, otherwise, it would be assumed as a hostile act and could lead to a response by the offended party.
3. To Cancel: A mail from the Duke will be sent to the other Duke, then an official and formal declaration will be published in the other duchy's Inn. Copies should be posted in the Embassies as well
4. Cancellation won't stop procedures already in progress between either duchy and will continue until judgment is rendered.
5. Any unilateral cancellation in a war situation will be assumed as a treason act and could lead to full retaliation
6. A full or partial rewriting of the treaty or even his cancellation can be decided by mutual consent.

Signed at the embassy of .. (location) the .. (date)

In the name of Cumberland's County:


In the name of Stafford's County:

My response was as follows(dated 14 Jul, 1457):

In the matter of the treaty, I have looked within chambers. I do not find that document at the moment, though I do seem to recall some discussion on it. It has been my understanding that signatures and seals were to be forthcoming, though one must admit that there have been a great many upheavals in council recently. While I do not, personally, have authority at this time to affix signature or seal, I shall inform Lady Miniphoenix, in the instant of her return, and I shall either have her contact you, or I shall do so. As I said, she should be back in the next day or so. Will this suffice for the moment? Honestly I do not see any issue with the document, but I must verify with Lady Mini before I do anything on this.

I wrote the then assistant duke, Lady Miniphoenix with regard to the matter, via ingame mail. Due to circumstances beyond my control, I did not see any response, and therefore went with the understanding that it was taken care of. The above quoted response was sent via the embassy. It can be verified by Chamberlain Ming.

Any more false accusations you'd like to make against my County??

((excerpt from first pm posted with consent of the sender.))

[arthur_loxley]

So, Hagman, what you're saying is that Cumberland couldn't be bothered to deal with the judicial treaty and, as you noted, your council dithered and did nothing to further the treaty.


Congratulations at arriving at the same point Arthur has been making, and condemnations for making 'false accusations' against Cumberland.

[arthur_loxley]

That's right. False accusations. An attempt was in fact made, as I have shown, for this to be dealt with. Quite the contrary from what was stated, that none of us have made any attempt to respond in 18 months.

[arthur_loxley]

Shakes her head Hmmm, wonders what exactly you are trying to pull here. Firstly I believe as Stafford Ambassador to Cumberland that post you have presented was my visit to the Embassy which also happens to be from the Stafford/Cumberland private office. With no permission to have the post dragged out. Secondly my interactions have not at all been with yourself Hagman. I have only corresponded with the Chamberlain Lady Tasite.

I can only assume your response shown here is from your council chambers, as the Ambassador of Stafford, I do not have access to your council office so how exactly was Stafford to know if it was looked or if you made a comment? We are not mind readers and I can only go by what is relayed back to me. Just because you looked at it doesn't mean anything to us if there is no response.

Lady Tasite had replied to me twice in the Embassy to say that Council had it and that was it.

So no, there are no false accusations from us only excuses from Cumberland.
Edited to add; The way you have presented this now is to make it look as I had presented it and you had replied to me which is not the case at all

[arthur_loxley]

It sure would be nice if we could get past the blame game and start work on the treaty between Cumberland and Stafford. This would be an excellent step in establishing a good relationship betwixt the two counties.

[arthur_loxley]

Lady Penelope_rose if you go back a few posts you will see where I have already stated a treaty is being worked on, in fact I believe it is in Stafford's hands now. We await their feedback or their "appropriate measures" which ever they choose.

The matter has been taken care of, thank you for your concern.

[arthur_loxley]

Faradorn opens his pocket book of words, one he usually uses for legal matters and flicks through to a chapter named F.

"Factionism." He says out loud, looking around as he says it. Who knows if they know what he is getting at, but he thinks to himself for a moment.

He then pulls out some parchment which seem to be pertaining to the CoA and CoH and various treaties around the land.

"The proportionality in these things are intriguing you know!" He points to some of the figures for membership and other matters. Seemingly to himself. He smirks and wonders if it is just him that thinks England has split into two 'factions'. He sighs and then presses on to another matter.

"I must admit, I have raised a matter about the new law regarding who can be a councillor myself. I find it to be quite wrong though I seem to be alone in this opinion. I always thought the people could vote for whoever they like."

[arthur_loxley]

Lord Loxley, I beg to differ sir. The following is evidence that there WAS an attempt to get it dealt with. By ME, when I was captain.

What I received via the embassy was as follows(dated 13 Jul, 1457)...

and then there is the Treaty with Stafford it was never signed... I informed both Mini and DF without any answer... Stafford if being patience but it really needs to be addressed soon or at least let them know your looking at it.

Go to Cumberland Embassy > Cumberland Embassy English Division > Stafford Embassy


Lynna wrote:
Lynna had looked over the papers in the Stafford Embassy and noticed there had not been a Judicial treaty agreed upon with Cumberland, the Stafford Chamberlain had asked her to re-present the Stafford version for those on Cumberland council to peruse. She pulled another parchment from her satchel.

Tasite I have also bought with me the Judicial Treaty we offer to the counties in England and I was wondering if you would be able to present it to Council for their perusal and discussion on signing a Treaty with Stafford, would you please be able to do that for me ? I believe talks were started some time ago but never finalised and I was asked to bring it with me.



Stafford Judicial Treaty wrote:
In their almighty wisdom, the Lords Dragonflame, Count of Cumberland, and Kenrich, Count of Stafford, wished to express their friendship by establishing a judicial treaty binding Stafford and Cumberland citizens to preserve that friendship over years.

Article I
1. Upon the signing of this Judicial treaty, the contracting parties agree that no one should flee from legal proceedings or attempt escape from his/her Duke's authority on his/her lands.
2. A citizen accused in one or both counties must follow the laws and customs where the offense was committed.

Article II
1. If an accused person flees from a territory allied by this treaty in an attempt to flee justice, he will be either extradited or judged, by mutual agreement by duly appointed judicial authorities upon who's lands he was arrested. Concerning the mutual agreement, it implies a full cooperation between prosecutors and judges from both countries in order that the defendant receive a judgment he would have received if he hadn't fled. The accused should also be provided a competent defense council by the Country in which he was arrested.
2. The procedure will be the following :
- Indictment on demand by the Duchy holding jurisdiction over the crime committed. Requesting Duchy prosecutor will write the bill of indictment. Proof of Evidence against the accused will be required from the Requesting Duchy to the responding Duchy prior to posting of any indictment.
- The whole procedure is under the primary jurisdiction of the requesting duchy. The Local responding Judge will write the sentence, but will show motives of his decision following the law of the requesting duchy.
- Collaboration is required between juridical authorities from both duchies in order to keep the laws of both the requesting and responding Duchies respected

Article III
1. Lords, their heirs, and successors are contractually obligated to respect the entire treaty. Disregard of any clause(s) within this treaty frees the other party of his commitment until a compensation is made/or agreements can be reached.
2. A unilateral cancellation of present treaty in a peacetime context should respect the following order, otherwise, it would be assumed as a hostile act and could lead to a response by the offended party.
3. To Cancel: A mail from the Duke will be sent to the other Duke, then an official and formal declaration will be published in the other duchy's Inn. Copies should be posted in the Embassies as well
4. Cancellation won't stop procedures already in progress between either duchy and will continue until judgment is rendered.
5. Any unilateral cancellation in a war situation will be assumed as a treason act and could lead to full retaliation
6. A full or partial rewriting of the treaty or even his cancellation can be decided by mutual consent.

Signed at the embassy of .. (location) the .. (date)

In the name of Cumberland's County:


In the name of Stafford's County:

My response was as follows(dated 14 Jul, 1457):

In the matter of the treaty, I have looked within chambers. I do not find that document at the moment, though I do seem to recall some discussion on it. It has been my understanding that signatures and seals were to be forthcoming, though one must admit that there have been a great many upheavals in council recently. While I do not, personally, have authority at this time to affix signature or seal, I shall inform Lady Miniphoenix, in the instant of her return, and I shall either have her contact you, or I shall do so. As I said, she should be back in the next day or so. Will this suffice for the moment? Honestly I do not see any issue with the document, but I must verify with Lady Mini before I do anything on this.

I wrote the then assistant duke, Lady Miniphoenix with regard to the matter, via ingame mail. Due to circumstances beyond my control, I did not see any response, and therefore went with the understanding that it was taken care of. The above quoted response was sent via the embassy. It can be verified by Chamberlain Ming.

Any more false accusations you'd like to make against my County??

((excerpt from first pm posted with consent of the sender.))

It is interesting that you are purposely misleading the people of England into believing that you have personally corresponded with Stafford Council. In fact the letter(s) that you display is an exchange between the Chamberlain of Cumberland and yourself. It is not a letter to Stafford, in any way whatsoever. It should also be noted that shortly after a second letter was sent to you by Lady Tasite Tudor (her husband has passed away), you resigned from Cumberland Council due to issues with Lady Marzena. I was there during the the same time picking up Lady Tasite and Sir Novaphoenix (family) to escort them south away from the melodrama in the north due to the injury of Councilor Owfio. I would know.

Stafford Council has received no communication from Cumberland for 18 months except from the current Duchess. There are no false accusations made by Stafford against Cumberland, only hard facts that can be confirmed by Lady Tasite, who is still Chamberlain of Cumberland Embassy.

[arthur_loxley]

No permission? The following looks to be permission to me...

From: Tasite
To: Hagman
Posted: 26 Aug 2009 20:28
Subject: Re: I need to talk Quote message
My Lord,

I have no problem with you posting what you need.

Yes me too.. I just had her in the shop for minor upgrades when she just died... Took her back to the store that did the upgrade and it was them that made the mistake so they replaced it... I only had the computer for 2 months Very Happy

Can't live with my computer it my job and fun all in one.

Yours,

Tasite

And since you want to be that way, here's my request FOR permission. TO Lady Ming.....

Hagman
To: Tasite
Posted: 26 Aug 2009 17:10
Subject: Re: I need to talk
My Lady,

I am very sorry to have to bother you. May I have your consent to post what you sent to me in pm form, with regard to the judicial treaty between Cumbria, and Stafford? It seems Lord Loxley wants to get aggressive with my Duchess, and I need to rebut his accusation that there was no attempt to get it dealt with.

Respectfully yours

H. de Stryke, Esq.

Now. If it required your consent for Lady Ming to bring this to the attention of the then sitting council of Cumbria from an area visible to councillors (ooc- YES I was able to see in there, just not to post../ooc)) then there may be an issue on that end. However, since it was sent to me as a pm also, I got consent from the person who sent the pm on it. That would be Lady Ming. As you can see, I do have her consent to repost the pertinent part of what she sent me.

[arthur_loxley]

It is highly irrelevant whether permission was sought or not. Stafford has nothing to hide.

OOC: FYI, Lynna's post was in a private forum and it would require that you seek her permission prior to reposting her statements regardless if it was PMed to you by another.[/OOC]

The point is you, Hagman, did not communicate with Stafford in any way. You communicated with the Embassy Chamberlain of Cumberland. Please explain how Stafford has issued false accusations against Cumberland.

19 Jun 1457
Treaty sent again. Response from Chamberlain stating that treaty was in discussion.

I know for a fact that this response from the Chamberlain was on July 12th. In fact, I speak with your Chamberlain daily. While I was in your county, I requested information regarding the treaty since I was Embassy Chamberlain of Stafford at the time. This is why mails were initiated between Cumberland Embassy Chamberlain and you. She thought you were the most active and approachable councilor at the time.

[arthur_loxley]

Gentlemen....

Please, this is getting us nowhere fast.

There is a treaty that needs to be addressed and doing all this is not addressing that treaty but causing more issues that don’t need to be started.

Now I'm not on Cumberland Council but I am a Cumberland Chancellor, Based on that I can't speak for the council. But I can speak for myself, and I do know we have had a very good standing with Stafford since we started and for that I'm grateful. We also had issue and for that we have worked through them. Losing that good standing would be a loss I am sure we will regret.

Why can't the Council member of each county get together and come up with a good solution without all this going on?

It seems to me that no one is listening but everyone is talking. So stop for a moment and listen to each other.

If the treaty is not good enough to sign the get whats wrong fixed so we can work together to keep England safe….. Because if Cumberland falls to Scotland it is a matter of time before it spreads down south and everyone knows that.

Get it together and work it out.

MEN!!! Sorry Ladies

[arthur_loxley]

That is precisely my point. It was done through the Embassy. Just because it was not done direct, which is what you said, does not mean it never happened. I did what I had in my limited authority to get this handled. If I had had the authority to stick the ducal seal on it and send it back, I would have. However, it was brought to me through the Embassy, so I sent my response back by the same route. That, sir, does constitute an active attempt to get it dealt with. Thus your statement that no one had made any attempt to respond to this in 18 months is false. I did...I just happened to send it back the way it came...in other words through the Embassy. Obviously, having left council shortly after, I cannot vouch for whether the response actually got forwarded to you. Keep in mind, no duke, no assistant, and no designated third to follow up. So. One was extremely limited in what one could do without abusing one's authority. Sorry, but to my mind an acting Captain does not even remotely have the authority to sign off on a treaty of any kind. Regardless, an attempt to get this done was made. As to Lady Ming's commendation of my person, I [i]am[i/] easy to approach. As you know from your travel request. Any one of you could very much have written me and gotten an explanation of what the problem was, just as Lady Ming did. Since she was the only one who actually asked, she was the one who got a response.

but we have been ignored for over 18 months prior to your election as Duchess

Those are your words, sir. Those words indicate that not a living soul made any attempt, whatsoever. That statement, and your other words like it, are patently false. As we have both said, the matter was addressed through the Embassy. As I have tried to demonstrate here, for your edification, the matter was brought to us. I did attempt, within my limited authority, to get it taken care of. I then sent that information back by means of the Embassy. All that hardly constitutes ignoring the issue. What it does constitute is keeping the issue in the same chain of jurisprudence as that in which it was brought up. So, it cannot be said that nothing at all was done. Again, I cannot speak to whether my response was forwarded. (See below for ooc explanation of that bit)

((as an aside..can you shoot me the link/url for that other rule you spoke of? I do not find it in the Forum Rules FAQ, or the Archives. You might want to know also, that Tasite and I both had our computers go boom on us around that timeframe, so I would imagine a number of things went poof in the translation from one machine to another. I know it certainly happened to my own saved documents. There was several other issues going on at the time that contributed to the problem as well. If you need an explanation of those things, I'll give you a rundown player to player, by pm if you want. /ooc))

[arthur_loxley]

It is highly irrelevant whether permission was sought or not. Stafford has nothing to hide.

Oh really??? Well, let me correct something a bit in the events of timeline provided by Sir Arthur "by the book guy"

It seems that you are rather interested to put a blame on the current council of cumberland for previous councils to ignore the treaty presented by Stafford for 18 months.

If thats the case, i also would like to point out on something some previous council of Stafford have tried to do.

Lady Beemo, I should have clarified when I stated that Cumberland had given no response. I had meant prior to your election to Duchess. Stafford and Cumberland are now communicating; but we have been ignored for over 18 months prior to your election as Duchess. We have been reaching out to Cumberland since December of 1455.

Here is a background of the attempts of Stafford to establish communication with Cumberland:

Timeline of Events
28th Dec 1455
Our standard Judicial Treaty was presented

19th Jan 1456

Lord Arthur Loxley Tudor,

The Council of Cumberland would like Article III section 5 to be removed before we sign. The rest is agreed upon. I hope this is the clarification you required.

Lady Shriekersmom

Referring to this language:

5. Any unilateral cancellation in a war situation will be assumed as a treason act and could lead to full retaliation

Nothing happened from this. Meanwhile, Cumberland signed the same treaty with the language they asked Stafford to remove with other counties:
Lancaster - 7th June 1456
Chester - 28th December 1455
Somerset - 24th July 1456
Along with 9 other Countries.

24 Mar 1456
Treaty sent again. No response.

14 Aug 1456
Treaty sent again. No response.

8 Sept 1456
Donnor killed by Cumberland army.

Few weeks later: Duchess of Stafford threats to duchess of Cumberland with war and military assult

19 Jun 1457
Treaty sent again. Response from Chamberlain stating that treaty was in discussion.

So, i can aswell accuse the current council of Stafford for what the previous duchess have made. Let me give also following turn of events which till this day would be remained hidden (even by all current councillors of Cumberland):

Few days later after the threat: Cumberland duchess gives orders to bake bread, forge weapons and prepare army for to strike Stafford Castle as response to the threats said by Duchess of Stafford.

Few more days: Army is prepeared, supplied, battle plans made, waiting for orders to march

Few more days: A miracle happens and Stafford has a new council and new count. The incompetent duchess have been removed and army is used to defend English border.

Lot more cooperation between Cumberland and Stafford counties to follow after till latest timeline event provided by Sir Arthur.

Of course you my need some evidence: It is prohibited by RK laws to repost mails anywhere without approval of the sender.
But, i think i can be quite a good evidence as i can say here and now public to all - that was 1st task for my first army after the duchess of cumberland came to me and told me all.
After Stafford had new council and new duke, all ended well and army defended the border.

There have been lot of great dukes in Stafford county who all have done great for the county, its ppl and all England. Stafford has the graditude of Cumberland and also by me for sending supplies which have helped to hold the border while there was several reaver armies and civil war in Scotland.

So...i can understand that a few councillors from Stafford has nothing to do and they have buisness how other county councillors lead theyr counties, however, as for county of cumberland there are far more important things on to do list as surviving and supplying army alone for the defense of all England.


Now, that the threat from the North have calmed down i think for next 45 days or so, the Cumberland county councillors have more time and are now discussing about the treaty with Stafford.


In mean time i would like to ask those few councillors of Stafford to restrain from insults to the council of Cumberland about previous councils and we will do the same. I think it would be better for both counties, its ppl and for all England that there would be a treaty and a good relationship by working together.

[arthur_loxley]

Since forum rules have already been mentioned, a note from a censor:

about the quoting of private messages . . .

5. Thou shalt not place the content of private messages, actual or paraphrased, in any forum without the consent of the sender.
This includes the publishing of content of INGAME Mails as well as forum mails.

This is the forum rule. It is a rule for players, not for characters. As with other forum rules: if you see this rule violated, contact a censor by PM but don't discuss it on the forum.

Anteater thinks that there is no possibility to include this rule in role play. As far as Anteater knows there is no IG law anywhere about not being allowed to show your letters to others.


about quoting from private forums . . .

The only forums that are protected by admin ruling (Anteater will go and look for that), are private county council chambers. For quoting from private county council chambers you need permission by the county council in question. When players violate that rule, they are dealt with by censors (though of course their character may face consequences too).

Other than that, there are no forum rules regarding quoting from private forums. (There may of course be rules by the group with consequences for violations, but that is a matter for the group in question and not censors.)

In role playing about characters repeating what they heard/read in county council, Anteater would suggest to avoid referring to the forum rule.

EDITED to add:
Please PM questions on this to Anteater so that the happenings in role play can continue undisturbed.

[arthur_loxley]

Hey Elmix, if you're gonna make stuff up, you should at least try and make it realistic instead of spewing delusional and paranoid ravings about Stafford.

Thanks for coming forward with Cumberland's plans to invade Stafford after we objected to you murdering our citizens. I can't believe we wasted supplies and manpower on you vipers.

Anteater thinks that there is no possibility to include this rule in role play. As far as Anteater knows there is no IG law anywhere about not being allowed to show your letters to others.

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